A Deep Dive into Surveying's Future: AI, PropTech, and Beyond with Richard Sexton

Summary

In this first episode, I speak with Richard Sexton, Commercial Director at Houzecheck. Richard has worked across the property and valuation sector for more than three decades, including corporate roles at LSL and exposure to major market shifts from the 1990s crash through to COVID. We talk about how desktop valuations have developed, how corporates compare with independent practices, and how technology and AI are shaping everything from reporting to customer experience.

This is a grounded, honest conversation about the realities of residential surveying today and the opportunities ahead for the profession.

What we cover

– Richard’s career path across valuations and property services
 – The rise of desktop valuations and why they are here to stay
 – Corporate vs independent surveying models
 – Houzecheck’s flexible consultant model
 – How PropTech and AI are influencing reporting and quality control
 – The impact of legislation on upfront condition surveys
 – PI insurance challenges and what may change
 – Career advice for new and experienced surveyors
 – Why residential surveying still has huge long-term potential

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:33 Meet Richard Sexton

00:58 Richard's Career Journey

03:38 The Evolution of Desktop Valuations

05:52 Corporate vs. Independent Surveying

09:47 Houzecheck's Business Model

10:55 The Role of Technology in Surveying

17:29 Legislation and Upfront Condition Surveys

22:41 Professional Indemnity Insurance Challenges

27:36 Final Thoughts and Career Advice

29:34 Closing Remarks and Contact Information

Learn more about Houzecheck 

You can contact Richard on LinkedIn or email at Richard.Sexton@houzecheck.com

If you want to connect with surveyors across the UK and keep up with the profession, join The Surveying Room. It is free to join and open to all types of surveyors, students, and professionals who work with them. Surveyors UK & The Surveying Room  

Connect with me - Nina Young on LinkedIn

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Hello and welcome. You're listening to This Is Surveying, the podcast shining a light on the people, ideas, and stories shaping this incredible profession. I'm Nina Young, founder of Surveyors UK and the Surveying Room, the community bringing surveyors together, breaking down silos, and making surveying visible. So for now, let's dive into our latest episode. Today's guest is Richard Sexton. Richard is the commercial director for HouseCheck, which is a large surveying and valuation firm in the UK. And HouseCheck has a very heavy focus on proptech in the profession. So, without further ado, welcome Richard.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Hi Neela, thank you very much for inviting me on. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

You're very, very welcome. So, as with all guests that we have on the show, what would be helpful to the listeners is to understand a bit about your background and sort of how that's brought you to where you are today.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Thank you very much. Yeah. Well, I I don't know if this is blasphemy, but I'm not actually a surveyor, so I should admit to that first of all. But over the years I've learned to speak surveyorese if there is such a language. But I've had a long and checkered career around property, I guess. So prior to coming into the property sector, I was in sales. And then in 1991, I joined a business called GA property services back in the day. And they ultimately uh and I was just kind of an admin assistant processing valuation instructions. And over a series of years, that business morphed into what became eServe, part of the LSL group. And there were some interesting highlights, you might call them along the way. So when I joined 1991, I think that was the first property crash that we experienced. So it was all a bit depressing. Lots of repossession, lots of repossession valuations. And then that happened again in 2008, probably for different reasons with the subprime crash. And I was musing on it earlier on. There were probably three million mortgage valuations, I reckon, a year at that time, but also probably not sustainable. So that was an interesting point. We actually uh did a management buyout of the business, the whole LSL business in 2007, uh, which turned out to be not great timing because of the crash that happened about 12 months later. So we lost about 90% of the value of the company. So great, great timing, and then that gradually recovered. And LSL today is a is a is a highly successful business. I was with eServe when the the horrible COVID uh situation arose, and that was interesting because we had to quickly pivot because we were still very focused and and still are very focused in eServ on lender uh servicing. Um but of course the lockdown meant we couldn't actually go out and visit any properties, so we had to very quickly pivot and develop what people would now call desktops. Desktops were around at the time, but not in any way as penetrated into the market as they are now. So we had to quickly, almost overnight, come up with a proposition that was accurate and that the lenders trusted and obviously protected our surveyors and the customers who were scared actually about having people come into their property. And and the desktop approach and proposition is kind of not many lenders went back from that approach, and in fact, they've probably increased their use of desktops. So that's become a permanent part of the market.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Yeah, so on that point though, Richard, the the desktop, yeah, it's something I I hear a lot about. What are your thoughts as how it might go? Because I think a lot of people are looking at their business models and the desktop valuation, and it feels like there's just going to be a push for desktop because of many reasons, but also cost.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

What's your thoughts with it? I completely agree with that. And we've kind of we've kind of made our own bed in in some respects. So desktops are far more accurate now than perhaps they were to begin with. There's far more data around that you can rely on. And but there's there's there's a place for them. I don't think they're gonna be 100% of the market, and nor nor should they be. But the major driver for many corporate valuers, of course, is the lender market, and lenders want things which are safe, number one, that's the most important, but also cheap or cheaper, shall we say, and fast. And they also don't want, you know, they want to minimize the impact on their customers. So it's great if they can make make a loan based on a desktop that they're confident in and not disturb their customer and make them take the day off. I think you know they will go for it. And some of the major lenders are kind of leading on that, and I think that penetration will only continue along with kind of the use of AVMs as well. So I think the segmentation of the market will be, particularly for mortgage lending, that it will be the more complex types of loan and property where the kind of residential value ends up in terms of physical inspections. But if a lend if a lender is comfortable that they can use a desktop or an AVM, that they will. It's kind of an economic reality. So I think diversification for surveyors or surveyors in that market is a is a good idea. I'm with House Check now, which is almost entirely focused on private surveys. So we're kind of we're not exposed to that lender sector at the moment. And I think private surveys is an obvious home for surveyors who might see their kind of lender work shrinking over the next couple of years. I mean, people have predicted it for a while, but it does feel like it's it's accelerated as a trend now.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

Yeah, yeah. And going back to that actually, that point around sort of the valuation, the corporates that tend to dominate in in the marketplace, you've obviously spent a long time, by the sounds of it, in the sort of the corporate environment. And now I you're you're more in a more independent, you would say. Yeah. What kind of are the differences, you know, the the upsides, the downsides? Because there's always a lot of these debates that go on for trainees and newbies going into the into the profession. And, you know, just generally opinions. But I'd be interested to know your insights.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

There's a big difference between them two models. If you talk about corporate and employed and independent and self-employed, and and there's a bit of a Venn diagram there, but I think people know what I mean. So, and I think there's room for both for surveyors trying to choose their path. So if you work for a corporate business, you know, you have certainty over your income, which is important, particularly in the early days for for graduates, and that's where a lot of graduates tend to graduate towards or gravitate towards, I should say. Uh, and I guess to balance that against a self-employed independent model, you've probably got there's no cap on your earnings. So if you want to work as hard as you want to work, then you're you're probably able to earn more on a self-employed model. But then there are there are pros and cons again, because you know, from a PI perspective and risk perspective, a corporate employer will cover your PI for you, whereas you are personally taking the risk if you're a self-employed individual. If you're a graduate, again, I'd say the corporates are the right home to consider because from a development point of view, you'll get great support. I've seen hundreds of ASOC Wix valuers come through the system in eServe and in in other uh peer organizations, and they get really first-class training and they get really first-class support and mentoring. That doesn't exist kind of so much on the other side of the fence, so you're responsible for your own development and your own CPD, and your organization, I'm sure, is going to be helping with that kind of thing. Corporates and employed, you know, your business development is done for you, so you don't need to worry about that too much, and your admin is done for you. If you're a more gregarious individual and you enjoy, you know, talking to your local estate agent and other prospective customers, then self-employed is the way to go. I I I think what we see, what I think I see is is people probably first part of their career, they're in a employed corporate model. And then and then when the whole kind of work-life balance becomes more important, kids and getting older, which unfortunately we all are all are. We we in certainly in House Shek, we see people at that stage come to us and say, you know what, I'd like to work three days a week and I'd like to do, you know, X number of jobs a day. So this is a kind of more attractive option for me. But there's there's room for both, ultimately.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Sounds like there's a bit of a trade-off because one of the things I hear within sort of some of the corporate environments is that it can be very long hours. I don't know what your thoughts are on that compared to, like you say, you mentioned the work-life balance, but also there's the other side to it, as in running your own business, you're not just doing a surveying, you're running your business as well. So there is a lot to that. So sometimes that work-life balance is achievable, but I think there has to be some sort of caveats in that, in that you are still having to do everything else that you're required to do to run a business.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Correct. And if you work for a corporate, they will be very clear uh their expectations of you, and that will be a certain number of jobs in a certain area, you know, the 24-7 or five days a week, versus the self-employed model where you kind of set your own hours. But the the employed model, all those things you've just talked about, the admin is is taken care of for you. So I I think there's probably different times in surveyors' careers when both of those models kind of appeal for different reasons.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

So obviously now you're with house check. How big is the actual house check firm?

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Uh yeah, also we're we're we're pretty significant. We cover all of England and Wales. Our model is a consultant model, so a self-employed model. And we we've probably got about 150 ladies and gentlemen on our books, and they they work uh a range of hours. So some will give us half a day and and do their own private work as well. And we I think we do have a surveyor that works six days a week, which is probably even more than you would if you were working for a corporate. But they're making lots they're making lots of money, so that's that's that's their choice. So probably 150 surveyors on the books, but actively, you know, in a given month, maybe 90 to 100 will will work with, and that's their choice. They they tell us when they want to work and when they don't, so they control their own diaries, which uh which appeals. But house checks growing pretty rapidly. We've got some private equity investment end of last year. So our goal is kind of double double the number of surveyors and double the uh the the income and the turnover and all those kind of things. So it's a it's a really exciting journey.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Yeah. And and touching also about tech, you said, you know, we've um we've discussed before that house check is very much in the in the tech space. Can you talk to me more about that?

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Well, you might have heard of our secret source. Uh which is which is which is what we like to describe our kind of overall proposition as. Um, but to be serious, part of that secret source is our tech proposition. So one of the advantages of only working on private work is that you're not necessarily beholden to the kind of legacy platforms that you have to you have to work with if you want lender work. There's no there's not the other way from it. You you definitely need landmark quest and or uh totality, as I think it's called now. We've had the luxury of developing our own in-house system, and it's kind of been designed by some very clever uh techie colleagues of mine, but also by surveyors, so it's kind of designed by surveyors for surveyors, and it does a really good job of assisting them in producing private surveys, which is kind of our bread and butter. So it's outside of those big ecosystems, and again, we can we kind of it's in our gift to evolve that as as as we see fit. So we can we can incorporate updates and and and new features pretty quickly. I suspect we'll talk about AI at some point, but like everybody else, we read my mind. Well, I I think AI is kind of you know, it's one of those everybody's talking about it. I'm not sure everybody's doing it in a way that they're doing so I think it's got something to run, but we we're using it to audit our our reports for quality. So uh for example, uh it will it will machine read the report and offer suggestions about where more clarity can be introduced. And I think that the next stage of that is to kind of lead lead the surveyor, not not completely tell the surveyor what you should be writing. But if if you identify a certain defect, it might it might point you to say, okay, if there's a uh if you've got a pagoda roof, this is my impression of a surveyor now. You might think you've got a wall tie failure, and the system should be able to tell you that to go and look for that kind of particular defect. So I think that's where it's going. But I think uh I think it's a little bit overblown in terms of uh it being the kind of be all on end all of everything at the moment. It's a tool, not a it's an it's a tool, not a replacement for the surveyor's knowledge.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

That's it, and that's there's a lot of talk around that, and I agree. It's not it's not a replacement, but what it can do and what it will be able to do is provide I think I think provide more insight and more freeing up the actual surveyor to do the surveying. As in that's what they do, the eyes and ears, they're looking at the defects, they're following the trail, they're you know, you know, give giving their own insights and experience on something. Whereas AI is good, but it needs to be trained on data, and it needs a lot of data. And you could give it an image and you could say, What is this? Is this rise and damp? And without all the context, all the nuance around it, and all the information it needs, it's not going to be able to come to the correctly, you know. The survey is always gonna have to be there to interpret the data.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

I think so, and I think that the phrase I've heard, I'm not a tech expert, as you've probably worked out, but um, it can hallucinate, can't it? AI. So you if you ask it the wrong question, it'll give you the wrong answer. But your point about data analysis is is a is a very valid one. You know, if you can feed in 10,000, 100,000 reports, it can at least direct you to say, well, when people found this, then it might be that. Not it is that you need to you need to have a look at it. But uh, you know, I went to the the doctors the other day for a very minor thing, and the doctor switched his AI assistant on and it diagnosed the problem before the doctor did, and I looked at it, I said the doctor said, Yep, that's what it is, that's what it is. So kind of that's a use that's a but the doctor still made the final decision.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

So that's exactly, yeah. Yeah, it is. You still need the expert at the end, and I think there's uh, and I don't know if it's something that you're working on or something you've looked at, is is around sort of the visual data capture, you know, with the taking it taking an image and then interpreting that data as you go around a property. I've I've noticed there's lots of things that are springing up across surveying lots of solutions, and I think some of them will stick, and I think some of them will probably die off.

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, I think at one point, yeah, you I completely agree with you. At one point, probably 10 years ago, a number of people, including the company I work for, were exploring drones because they seemed like they would be a great idea. But what people forgot about was that you know, that's great if you're surveying Buckingham Palace or a mansion in the Cotswolds, it's not a great idea to go down One Acasia Avenue because you might chop someone's head off with a with a propeller. So, you know, great idea, but uh the implementation is kind of uh the the reality of it. So I I think what you could see as well, and I know people are kind of exploring this, is if you think about when you take your car to the garage, they'll sometimes send you a report to say we've got the car up on the ramps and we've here's the uh here's the problem with your exhaust or your tires. Uh and I think that's probably a sensible way forward with technology, and whether AI can actually interpret the image and then give a report, that that's kind of another step forwards. But you know, customer care and sort of customer experience is is where I think AI and technology can really make a difference and help surveyors not replace surveyors.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Hmm, because it's interesting the the auditing thing, is that used as a sort of quality control from your perspective? Is is it sort of are reports selected at random, or you know, how how does the auditing sort of work?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Well, I think the advantage of technology and AI is you can it it's a very low cost approach. So you can you can afford to do it on all reports, so that's what we do. Um and I think it's I think it's twofold. It is an audit to check quality, but it's also a feedback loop to say to surveyors, look, you you you always score lower on this section about roofs, for example. Maybe we can improve the way you report on roofs so there's more clarity. So it's not it's not a a stick per se, it's a way of feeding that back to the surveyor so that over time their their reporting becomes clearer. Ultimately, surveyance about communicated, isn't it? So the better you are a communicating, the better surveyor you are as well.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

Yeah. So one of the things that's just cut sprung to mind because it's quite a recent topic, a recent subject. And I don't know if uh what's your opinion on this is regards to talking about the legislation around upfront condition surveys. What are your thoughts on that or what you're hearing at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

So so I was around uh unfortunately when they tried this last time, which was called HIPS.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yep, and inspection packs, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

It's pretty much the same thing, and then it was pulled at the last minute, I think, for for political reasons, interestingly, because they were worried about the additional cost for the vendor, whereas now the justification or part of it is that it's gonna save the vendor cost. So, you know, you go f go figure which one is true. But I did spend a year of my life talking to this whole new breed of potential clients called hip providers. So these companies sprung up and we're all gonna make lots of money, and then overnight it was it was cancelled. So I I think it's an improvement. I think it will help introduce more information earlier in the process, it's gonna be good for everybody. I think for the surveying industry, it's a fantastic opportunity, especially in the context of what we said about kind of lender work falling away. This could be to some extent the saviour of the industry. So I think in general terms, surveyors should be supportive of it. My memory is that there was a kind of race to the bottom to some extent on fees. So whoever quoted the lowest fee was going to get all the work. So I think we should try and resist that temptation as an industry if we can. And it's not perfect, you know, it's the closest model you can look at is the Scottish model where you need a condition report before you can market. And there's some right, rightful criticism about that. That if you're a surveyor and you're relying on an estate agent or a solicitor, as it usually is in Scotland, to feed you work, how objective are you in your reporting? And and I'm sure all Scottish surveyors say they're absolutely objective, but you can you can imagine a scenario where there's some kind of backwards pressure placed on surveyors to be, let's say, flattering about a property or l less uh damning about a property. So that though those kind of kinks need to be ironed out. But I think the house check and me personally, I think very supportive of the concept, and and I think the industry, industry should be as well.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

Yeah, isn't yeah, I've recently been at the the Sava residential surveying event, which you were at as well, and um I spoke to a few surveyors, and some some of them were very concerned about it. And I think it comes down to with a lot of the smaller independents that are concerned that it would go down the race to the bottom model, you know, cheap, churn, fast. And yet you've got some amazing surveyors who pride themselves on the quality and the depth of work that they do. And and I think that's probably where that fear comes from, is that is the pricing, is something like that. There is, I can see the big upside as well, is like suddenly every property needs a survey. It's like no huge proportion, the majority don't get the surveys. So, in a way, it's suddenly it will increase the volume of surveys, however, it's the it's the pricing.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

And yeah, I think um you can pick your number, but between people say between 10 and 20 percent of purchasers get a survey, which is terrible when it's the most expensive purchase you you you're likely to make in your life. And if you're gonna buy a secondhand car, many people get an AA or an RAC survey, but you don't bother, you don't bother with a house because there's a misunderstanding that the lender's mortgage valuation is one for you, which it's not, it's for the lender, and two is a condition report, which it's not. It's about sh can I lend this much money to this person. But there's a there's a great misunderstanding about that. So I think more private surveys commercially is great for the industry, but also from an information, available information point of view is also a really good idea. We we did some calculations the other day that it could be sort of you know 500 million pounds worth of fees, pick your number, but it's it it it's a it could be a whole new industry and a whole new source of business for surveyors that will hopefully encourage new entrants into the into the industry and keep it vibrant.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

I think anything that does that is a good thing, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Completely agree. Completely agree.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

I think we have a big challenge there with with residential. Surveying and getting new talent in. And I think if it if there is an opportunity for a big market, it will drive that. It will drive that need.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

Yeah. And there's careers. Well, I think your fear of for the for the smaller players is is is legitimate. And I think what happened last time was that very quickly the providers, be it the legal providers, of surveyors and and other stakeholders, started to aggregate either either formally by you know buying each other out or informally into kind of loose uh alliances. And um I could see that happening again. You know, finding a safe haven, if you like, if you're the local independent surveyor, might be a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Okay. So I think one of the other topics that is always always on the front and foremost of surveyors' minds is is insurance, professional indemnity insurance. What are your sort of experiences and thoughts on on the current state of the market at the moment with insurance? Because I've heard lots of in the past, over the past few years, horror stories about premiums increasing significantly. Where where are we kind of now with it?

SPEAKER_00 23:06

So yeah, I can only speak from direct experience, but so so what happened was after 2008, 2009, massive amount of claims related to subprime lending, and that that really spooked insurers. Um so everybody's premiums went up, and there were lots of claims made and lots of claims settled, and and that forced a lot of people out of the market simply because they couldn't they couldn't afford the insurance premium. What has happened since then, I think, looking at the industry as a whole, is that valuation claims have dropped dramatically, partly because a rising uh property market kind of, if you like, hides any errors because it doesn't matter as long as the lender can get his his uh money back, and that's where most of the claims come from. So I think that valuation-related claims are probably at an all-time low. And what we see is defect claims related to home buyers reports, building surveys, where just a defect has not been picked up, and that's what that's what insurance is there to do. So I think in general terms, it's a lot cheaper than it has been. But I think the other effect that is very unfair, but definitely happens, is you know, next time there's a hurricane in the Caribbean, the premium gets loaded onto everybody else, regardless of the fact that it's something completely different. The insurers have to recover it somehow, and I'm using that as an extreme example. But it, you know, they're they're not discrete areas of insurance. The insurance company needs to make money, so they'll they'll recover their losses however they can, realistically. So I think it's probably more benign than it's been for 15 or so years. If we hit a property downturn, you'd see the premiums probably rising up very, very quickly, and that will then potentially drive some firms out of business. There was a period, again, probably three or four years ago, where insurers were happy, inverted commas, to continue insuring surveyors or surveying firms, but only if they did not undertake valuation work specifically for lenders, because that objectively, and it's not a criticism of lenders, because they've got their own business model, is where most of the claims came from in that last 15-year period.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, a lot of uh a a lot of surveys are now residential, they they they stopped valuation work literally altogether because they the premiums was the biggest and the exposure was really different, and it's it's extremely challenging for small firms. Yes. To justify the cost.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

So going back to house check, you mentioned your business model. Is it right that so basically you're working with uh surveyors who've already got their own businesses and they will partner with you and you will then help generate the business, the leads. Do you do all the booking for them? Sort of how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yeah, so it's a very flexible model. So you can choose the the amount of days you work for us, the amount of jobs that you do for us. Some of our um surveying partners only work for us, more or less. Some of them have their own businesses, some of them are actually small practices, so ABC surveyors might have four or five surveyors but receive some work for us. The attraction, I think, of House Check is that yes, we pick up all of the admin. So we do the business development. That's kind of one of my jobs. Uh, we go out and find partners. We generate a lot of private survey leads through our own kind of online activity as well. Lots of people do that. But we're we're generating the work on behalf of our surveyor network. We do the booking, we issue the terms and conditions, we do the billing. So it is a very light touch approach if you really just want to do the surveyor bit, which is the interesting bit for lots of people in the industry. So it works very well for that category of individual. Uh, probably without uh without making a sweeping judgment, we're probably uh our network is people who are probably in the on average latter half of their career rather than the first half of their career for all the reasons we talked about earlier on in terms of work-life balance. But we also give them the software, so we we give them the software for free to to produce the reports. If they want to use the software for their own work, they can. We don't restrict that. There's a very small very small admin charge for that if they want to do it. But the fact the fact that a lot of our uh surveyors do that tells me it's you know it's an interesting piece of software that they find makes their life easier.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Okay, okay. So um but before we uh end our chat today, is there anything else that you want to share with people listening? Anything about residential surveying generally, the the market, anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Well, I I think if you went back 15, 20 years, people would often say to me, because I'm getting old, you know, my son or my daughter's coming out of university, should they become a surveyor? And I would I would usually say, Oh, it's hard work. It's hard work, and you know, you're gonna you're gonna get give you a pound of flesh, etc., etc. So think think about it very carefully. And it was probably a bit of an undervalued profession then. I think the opposite is true now. I think it's a it's a great, vibrant profession to go into. The options uh or the career paths ahead of you are kind of wider than they ever have been before. And if you're if you're into property, I think it's a fantastic choice to make. So, and you can earn quite a lot of money, you know. That's not the be all and end all, but you can there are not many uh careers where you can leave university and start earning the sort of money that you can earn as a as a surveyor. So I've probably switched my position 100%. So yeah, there's keep keep surveying going.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Excellent. I like that. Positive. We like positivity. I I I mean, I must admit, I agree. It's an incredible profession, and there are so many opportunities out there for at all ages as well. So you don't just have to be, you know, coming out of university to do surveying.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Yeah, and I that's what I like about this. I've talked about residential surveying, but I know your site and your your proposition is far wider than that. And so I I'm often a bit blinkered in my perspective on things, but I'm sure people visiting your site will see the kind of rich variety of options available to them. And I I applaud you for what you're doing with your site. I think it's gonna be fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Thank you, Richard. We're getting there. We're getting there with it. I'd be excited to see you in it as well when uh when we open the doors, it'd be great.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

We'll be there, I promise.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Well, thank you very much, Richard. You've got um really enjoyed our conversation. I think there's some really insightful things that you've shared with people today. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Thanks for your time.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Does anyone that wants to get in touch with either you or where where should they go to? We'll we will include some details in the show notes so people know where that details are.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

You can find me on our website, which is housecheck with a z, h-o-u-ze-check.com. Uh, my email address is richard.sexton at housecheck.com. Make contact and I'll be very happy to chat to anybody about anything because I can't stop talking.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

I can't stop talking. Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for today, Richard.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Thanks, Nina.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

Thank you for listening to this is surveying. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a review. It really helps more people discover the podcast and supports the work we're doing to raise awareness of the profession. You can also join the surveying room, the free and independent community from Surveys UK, bringing surveys together, breaking down silos, and of course making surveying visible. Just head over to surveyors-uk.com to learn more and join today. All the links discussed in today's episode are included in the show notes.